cinqsit
01-17 02:28 PM
hey snathan
how about a addnl category in the survey
people who are not on h1 but willing to contribute
I am sure there will be some ;-)
cinqsit
how about a addnl category in the survey
people who are not on h1 but willing to contribute
I am sure there will be some ;-)
cinqsit
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whiteStallion
04-18 04:50 PM
Hearty congratulations...
chetanjumani
01-31 01:00 AM
just voted
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mrajatish
04-18 11:35 AM
How about this - let us have a couple of volunteers call/email people asking for $25 contribution. If we can get 1/2 of 3000 people contributing $25 each, we will get to about 120K. I am ready to take initiative in this - core group, can I get this initiative going?
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vbkris77
03-11 02:32 PM
Couple of points I disagree,
1. If we assume them as I485 apps, we also need to take Family numbers into account. So EB2 LCs can only be around 23000.
2. In 2007, Perm wasn't as hopeless as it is now. So people were getting LCs in less than 3 months.
So adding all these, here is my break up
Year LC# EB2 LC Visa #
2004 12000 5000 11250
2005 7000 2000 4500
2006 18000 8000 18000
2007-Pre 10000 8000 18000
2007-Post 15000 9000 20250
2008 1500 1000 2250
With this, if EB2 I is as lucky as last year. We should see PD of 2006 when we goto next year.
Again it is just a guess..
1. If we assume them as I485 apps, we also need to take Family numbers into account. So EB2 LCs can only be around 23000.
2. In 2007, Perm wasn't as hopeless as it is now. So people were getting LCs in less than 3 months.
So adding all these, here is my break up
Year LC# EB2 LC Visa #
2004 12000 5000 11250
2005 7000 2000 4500
2006 18000 8000 18000
2007-Pre 10000 8000 18000
2007-Post 15000 9000 20250
2008 1500 1000 2250
With this, if EB2 I is as lucky as last year. We should see PD of 2006 when we goto next year.
Again it is just a guess..
EkAurAaya
11-02 10:54 AM
1) We can go back; need not pretend if we think we have the brains
2) If you go "your GC misery is over". After that "A new beginning for you and this society"
3) If you don't go back you don't lose credibility. You just prove that you want to live here no matter what. Eveyone has the right to make his choice based on what works out well for him/her
4) For those who voted "yes" I think they know what they want in life and why they are here. No matter what the conditions are here or anywhere they will make the right choices instead of expecting someone else to control their lives.
The counter point is "Lobbying is not the only path to our freedom and independence"
Like you mentioned pointing out people and there posts is not required ( if you think that is a smart threat and expect people to backoff) because everyone can search every post of the other person if they want to do so.
FOR ALL THOSE WHO VOTED YES - IF WE HAVE ENOUGH NUMBERS WE CAN CHARTER A A380 OR TWO DREAMLINERS ONE FROM THE EAST COAST AND ONE FROM THE WEST COAST WITH STOPS IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES TO DROP OFF PEOPLE. IT HELPS US, AIRBUS/BOEING AND THE "NO" SAYERS WAITING FOR THEIR GC'S. THIS WOULD BE FOR SURE A BIG EVENT IN THE HISTORY.
I am not against IV and its goals or against any views or opinions of people. It is a free world, but if we want to pay a price for that we can do so in many ways. e.g. Waiting for GC.
I don't think you will understand this but i will give a simple explanations...
it is not easy for people to pack up and leave when you have family/kids assimilating in the system (forget your "status" for a minute - people living here don't want to move to a different town (forget state) because their kids are in school) <<< this has nothing to do with how brainy you are (in fact it will be stupid to just pack up and leave). Oh and not to forget... i want SS/Medicare when i retire, i paid for it ;)
However I can guarantee you 80% (if not 100%) of IV members with PD < 2004 would have return if they had to restart the process of GC (too late for that we all have 485 applied and AC21 is around the corner ;))
And to answer your question about brain drain... it will happen if immigration is not fixed, if it takes 10-15 years to immigrate then people with naturally opt to get out of here before they are neck deep (like us 7-10 years) in the system.
But really Please Please Please do set an example by going back for good... I already explained the net result of you going back in my previous post ;)
Request: Mods I think this stupid thread does not belong here, please delete it... gjoe can take his agenda some place else to rally some support (perhaps in some anti-immigrant website).
2) If you go "your GC misery is over". After that "A new beginning for you and this society"
3) If you don't go back you don't lose credibility. You just prove that you want to live here no matter what. Eveyone has the right to make his choice based on what works out well for him/her
4) For those who voted "yes" I think they know what they want in life and why they are here. No matter what the conditions are here or anywhere they will make the right choices instead of expecting someone else to control their lives.
The counter point is "Lobbying is not the only path to our freedom and independence"
Like you mentioned pointing out people and there posts is not required ( if you think that is a smart threat and expect people to backoff) because everyone can search every post of the other person if they want to do so.
FOR ALL THOSE WHO VOTED YES - IF WE HAVE ENOUGH NUMBERS WE CAN CHARTER A A380 OR TWO DREAMLINERS ONE FROM THE EAST COAST AND ONE FROM THE WEST COAST WITH STOPS IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES TO DROP OFF PEOPLE. IT HELPS US, AIRBUS/BOEING AND THE "NO" SAYERS WAITING FOR THEIR GC'S. THIS WOULD BE FOR SURE A BIG EVENT IN THE HISTORY.
I am not against IV and its goals or against any views or opinions of people. It is a free world, but if we want to pay a price for that we can do so in many ways. e.g. Waiting for GC.
I don't think you will understand this but i will give a simple explanations...
it is not easy for people to pack up and leave when you have family/kids assimilating in the system (forget your "status" for a minute - people living here don't want to move to a different town (forget state) because their kids are in school) <<< this has nothing to do with how brainy you are (in fact it will be stupid to just pack up and leave). Oh and not to forget... i want SS/Medicare when i retire, i paid for it ;)
However I can guarantee you 80% (if not 100%) of IV members with PD < 2004 would have return if they had to restart the process of GC (too late for that we all have 485 applied and AC21 is around the corner ;))
And to answer your question about brain drain... it will happen if immigration is not fixed, if it takes 10-15 years to immigrate then people with naturally opt to get out of here before they are neck deep (like us 7-10 years) in the system.
But really Please Please Please do set an example by going back for good... I already explained the net result of you going back in my previous post ;)
Request: Mods I think this stupid thread does not belong here, please delete it... gjoe can take his agenda some place else to rally some support (perhaps in some anti-immigrant website).
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conchshell
08-19 02:20 PM
Congratulations on your citizenship. I am happy for you.But, in what ways can you help? I very curious to know. I have been following your post and so far I am still optimistic for your grand help that you have been talking about through out.
I know the power of citizenship. My wife's father passed away last year in September. Her AP application was pending. We took an infopass appointment to get an emergency AP, and met an officer who was really rude. In essence the officer told us that she can not do anything on humanitarian basis and point blank asked us to go and talk to the Congress.
And that's what we did. We asked one of our friend who is citizen to help. She took my case details and the officer's badge number. She personally talked to local congressman and senator's office. They initiated an inquiry with USCIS, quoting the officer's statement and the badge number ... Three days later we got a call from local USCIS office, filled with sympathy and full of remorse. A week later we got her AP document.
So a citizen can really help. Please make your contact details available, so that when emergency arises, you can help them by contacting the congressman or senators.
I know the power of citizenship. My wife's father passed away last year in September. Her AP application was pending. We took an infopass appointment to get an emergency AP, and met an officer who was really rude. In essence the officer told us that she can not do anything on humanitarian basis and point blank asked us to go and talk to the Congress.
And that's what we did. We asked one of our friend who is citizen to help. She took my case details and the officer's badge number. She personally talked to local congressman and senator's office. They initiated an inquiry with USCIS, quoting the officer's statement and the badge number ... Three days later we got a call from local USCIS office, filled with sympathy and full of remorse. A week later we got her AP document.
So a citizen can really help. Please make your contact details available, so that when emergency arises, you can help them by contacting the congressman or senators.
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Macaca
11-27 01:21 PM
From The amero conspiracy Behind closed doors, a secret cabal is planning the end of the United States as we know it. Inside a paranoid vision for our time By Drake Bennett | Boston Globe, November 25, 2007: 1 (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showpost.php?p=198390&postcount=479) 2 (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showpost.php?p=198390&postcount=480)
Corsi's warning cry and gift for detail have given the theory traction in circles where anxieties about immigration and corporate oligarchy intersect. Lou Dobbs, whose CNN show portrays both free trade and increased immigration as sops to multinational corporations and body blows to the middle class, has devoted investigative segments to the NAU, the amero, and the NAFTA Superhighway.
From How Trade Breakthrough Almost Broke Down in Congress (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showpost.php?p=198072&postcount=460) By Juliet Eilperin | Washington Post Staff Writer, November 22, 2007
Rangel said, adding that opponents of free trade on CNN and elsewhere have effectively linked recent U.S. job losses to trade pacts. "It's the Lou Dobbs thing: 'It's all due to trade.' "
Corsi's warning cry and gift for detail have given the theory traction in circles where anxieties about immigration and corporate oligarchy intersect. Lou Dobbs, whose CNN show portrays both free trade and increased immigration as sops to multinational corporations and body blows to the middle class, has devoted investigative segments to the NAU, the amero, and the NAFTA Superhighway.
From How Trade Breakthrough Almost Broke Down in Congress (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showpost.php?p=198072&postcount=460) By Juliet Eilperin | Washington Post Staff Writer, November 22, 2007
Rangel said, adding that opponents of free trade on CNN and elsewhere have effectively linked recent U.S. job losses to trade pacts. "It's the Lou Dobbs thing: 'It's all due to trade.' "
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crazyghoda
05-05 04:27 PM
Congrats! I know how relieved you must be feeling.
If you dont mind my asking, did you work at all during these 6 weeks?
Folks I have an update on my case.
We filed for Motion to reopen on which were receipted on March 27th, 2009. I wrote to Congressman, Senators and also Ombudsman. Today my congressman's office got an update that our MTRs were approved on April 30th and our 485s got reopened and they have sent letters to that effect.
What a relief. It was a stressful 6 week ordeal. Thanks to IV and its members for the help and support.
If you dont mind my asking, did you work at all during these 6 weeks?
Folks I have an update on my case.
We filed for Motion to reopen on which were receipted on March 27th, 2009. I wrote to Congressman, Senators and also Ombudsman. Today my congressman's office got an update that our MTRs were approved on April 30th and our 485s got reopened and they have sent letters to that effect.
What a relief. It was a stressful 6 week ordeal. Thanks to IV and its members for the help and support.
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anandrajesh
03-26 04:49 PM
I got an LUD on 485 when i got AP approved.
Dont even try to rationalise how the f*** those systems are inter connected and how they roll :o
OK I will stop wondering abt how the F*** this systems are inter-connected and stop rationalising all this. I see the point in worrying only abt things we can control.
Dont even try to rationalise how the f*** those systems are inter connected and how they roll :o
OK I will stop wondering abt how the F*** this systems are inter-connected and stop rationalising all this. I see the point in worrying only abt things we can control.
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chaanakya
08-13 05:41 PM
Yes, that is right, I said �plight of EB2-India�.
I am a passive observer of these forums. But some of the ridiculous notions floating around here have motivated me to vent. First and foremost, the law as written is highly favorable to people in EB3 categories, even from India. Here is how...
Take my example (and there are thousands like myself)....came to the US 8 years ago, spent 5 years working day and night to earn a PhD on a low (barely sustainable) stipend, got FIRST job saw decent money for the first time 6 years after I came.
Now, compare this to a person working an EB3-job for the last 8 years. Not only does this person do a real job that hopefully provides a respectable income but this person also has the option of moving to EB2 after 5 years of experience. So, at the end of the day in 2008; this person comes out ahead of me in terms of money, in terms of priority date (if ported) and most likely in terms of GC.
There are complaints all over the forum which have the stink of pretentiousness such as �oh..i am a poor EB3 waiting for n number of years� etc etc. What you guys seem to forget is that YOU are NOT an EB3, it is your JOB that is EB3. You have all the opportunities that were/are available to a person who sweated it out in the university system here to gain more qualifications and get an EB2 job. You CHOSE not to. The general discussion seems to center around cribbing about the US immigration system (Immigration by the way is a privilege defined by laws, not a birthright) and then blaming the EB2 crowd when they finally see the system implement the law as intended in the first place (horizontal spillover rules).
All these posts that refer to �my career is over because my gc is delayed� are nothing but a pathetic excuse. Law of supply and demand....if you have a skillset that is valuable, you will be fine with or without GC anywhere in the world. It takes a bunch of documents to remain here legally, all you need is a passport to go back if the system here seems so bad.
For all the attacks that are bound to happen, here is the fodder.....this is probably my first and last post, I haven�t contributed a dime to IV, will work here as long as I like it and if not, India is a great country and provides enough opportunities for any skillset !!
I am a passive observer of these forums. But some of the ridiculous notions floating around here have motivated me to vent. First and foremost, the law as written is highly favorable to people in EB3 categories, even from India. Here is how...
Take my example (and there are thousands like myself)....came to the US 8 years ago, spent 5 years working day and night to earn a PhD on a low (barely sustainable) stipend, got FIRST job saw decent money for the first time 6 years after I came.
Now, compare this to a person working an EB3-job for the last 8 years. Not only does this person do a real job that hopefully provides a respectable income but this person also has the option of moving to EB2 after 5 years of experience. So, at the end of the day in 2008; this person comes out ahead of me in terms of money, in terms of priority date (if ported) and most likely in terms of GC.
There are complaints all over the forum which have the stink of pretentiousness such as �oh..i am a poor EB3 waiting for n number of years� etc etc. What you guys seem to forget is that YOU are NOT an EB3, it is your JOB that is EB3. You have all the opportunities that were/are available to a person who sweated it out in the university system here to gain more qualifications and get an EB2 job. You CHOSE not to. The general discussion seems to center around cribbing about the US immigration system (Immigration by the way is a privilege defined by laws, not a birthright) and then blaming the EB2 crowd when they finally see the system implement the law as intended in the first place (horizontal spillover rules).
All these posts that refer to �my career is over because my gc is delayed� are nothing but a pathetic excuse. Law of supply and demand....if you have a skillset that is valuable, you will be fine with or without GC anywhere in the world. It takes a bunch of documents to remain here legally, all you need is a passport to go back if the system here seems so bad.
For all the attacks that are bound to happen, here is the fodder.....this is probably my first and last post, I haven�t contributed a dime to IV, will work here as long as I like it and if not, India is a great country and provides enough opportunities for any skillset !!
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prioritydate
08-22 12:53 PM
Seriously, folks. What's with this thread? Total waste of time.
Someone announces his 'greatest achievement' ... others challenge him to show true patriotism... yet others ask him to continue supporting India etc., AND this chap actually responds :)!
Wow! Seriously we all have too much time on our hands to be self promoting / congratulating / reminiscing etc...
Glad that this person will call US Senators etc., lets thank him for that and keep moving... instead of grilling him on things that matter to you! He owes you all no explanations or apologies.
Peace!
Right on! It is not a great achievement, but he was happy to share this with immigration community. I don't think anyone need to get offended by his post.
Someone announces his 'greatest achievement' ... others challenge him to show true patriotism... yet others ask him to continue supporting India etc., AND this chap actually responds :)!
Wow! Seriously we all have too much time on our hands to be self promoting / congratulating / reminiscing etc...
Glad that this person will call US Senators etc., lets thank him for that and keep moving... instead of grilling him on things that matter to you! He owes you all no explanations or apologies.
Peace!
Right on! It is not a great achievement, but he was happy to share this with immigration community. I don't think anyone need to get offended by his post.
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lazycis
06-11 09:10 AM
You definitely need to defend yourself. If you do not, the default judgment may be entered against you (you'll be automatically guilty and responsible for the payment). Consult with an attorney first. You usually have 30 days to respond to the complaint. Did you get summons? If there are criminal charges against you, you are entitled to free government attorney. No need to ruin your life because of this.
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nitinba
07-18 06:52 PM
Hello,
With hard 7% limit per country; our numbers within EB category are at 10,000 (it's not a huge number even if we apply 7% on EB+FB).
There are at least 250,000 people waiting on GC from India alone, at this rate it will take 25 years.
Am I wrong, I really hope I'm terribly wrong.
will the country limits still apply when for example 1st Jul & 2nd july visa availability was current. I guess USCIS ended up approving all the cases irrespective of country of origin in those cases, how else u can justify 60K visas used up?
With hard 7% limit per country; our numbers within EB category are at 10,000 (it's not a huge number even if we apply 7% on EB+FB).
There are at least 250,000 people waiting on GC from India alone, at this rate it will take 25 years.
Am I wrong, I really hope I'm terribly wrong.
will the country limits still apply when for example 1st Jul & 2nd july visa availability was current. I guess USCIS ended up approving all the cases irrespective of country of origin in those cases, how else u can justify 60K visas used up?
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amitga
02-01 02:03 PM
In my view H1B problem is directly related to Retrogression problem. Lets step backwards and analyze this.
Why so many GC were applied at the first place that caused retrogression. Because a large number of people came on H1B to US. All these people who came to US on H1b did not actually had any extraordinary skills. These people somehow got in touch with these Desi Consulting companies and came here without any skill and without any projects. These desi consulting companies applied there GC irrespective of the fact that these guys have a job or not. Some of the people I know have sat on bench for years, living with their relatives, unable to get any job. But they had their labour filed. These knid of people would not have made to US, if these fadudent companies were not there.
Also big companies, have a policy not to apply GC before one year of service. The point was that these companys will file GC only if they feel that the employee adds value to the company. But with these desi companys people have filed GC even before joining the companys.
In essence if the GC process was working without these Desi companies, I can bet that the number of GC applied would have been much lower than what have we currently have.
Substituted labor has further added to this problem.
H1B problems have nothing to do with retrogression.
If H1B employees are being mistreated by a certain class of employers, then what does that have to do with shortage of visa numbers?
Nothing.
Misuse and abuse of H1B program did not cause retrogression. And if the abuse ends, its not going to end retrogression. The H1B program does provide ammunition to anti-immigrants to use that paint-brush and paint the entire program of H1B and Employment based GC as bad. Fortune 500 companies dont engage in unethical behavior. The TCS, Wipro etc maybe do that. Small bodyshops certainly do that. I am yet to see a small body-shop, operated by a citizen of foriegn origin, working by the book and treating employees well.
But all said and done, these things make our life more difficult and exacerbate the situation that arose from retrogression. However, these things didnt cause retrogression.
At the most, these issues of H1B abuse may have provided support to some groups in keeping the H1B quota down. However, it has nothing to do with EB quota. In fact, IEEE-USA advocates bringing down H1B quota and RAISING the employment based GC quota, in order to remove factors that encourage employer abuse.
Why so many GC were applied at the first place that caused retrogression. Because a large number of people came on H1B to US. All these people who came to US on H1b did not actually had any extraordinary skills. These people somehow got in touch with these Desi Consulting companies and came here without any skill and without any projects. These desi consulting companies applied there GC irrespective of the fact that these guys have a job or not. Some of the people I know have sat on bench for years, living with their relatives, unable to get any job. But they had their labour filed. These knid of people would not have made to US, if these fadudent companies were not there.
Also big companies, have a policy not to apply GC before one year of service. The point was that these companys will file GC only if they feel that the employee adds value to the company. But with these desi companys people have filed GC even before joining the companys.
In essence if the GC process was working without these Desi companies, I can bet that the number of GC applied would have been much lower than what have we currently have.
Substituted labor has further added to this problem.
H1B problems have nothing to do with retrogression.
If H1B employees are being mistreated by a certain class of employers, then what does that have to do with shortage of visa numbers?
Nothing.
Misuse and abuse of H1B program did not cause retrogression. And if the abuse ends, its not going to end retrogression. The H1B program does provide ammunition to anti-immigrants to use that paint-brush and paint the entire program of H1B and Employment based GC as bad. Fortune 500 companies dont engage in unethical behavior. The TCS, Wipro etc maybe do that. Small bodyshops certainly do that. I am yet to see a small body-shop, operated by a citizen of foriegn origin, working by the book and treating employees well.
But all said and done, these things make our life more difficult and exacerbate the situation that arose from retrogression. However, these things didnt cause retrogression.
At the most, these issues of H1B abuse may have provided support to some groups in keeping the H1B quota down. However, it has nothing to do with EB quota. In fact, IEEE-USA advocates bringing down H1B quota and RAISING the employment based GC quota, in order to remove factors that encourage employer abuse.
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raj2007
06-12 11:31 AM
Hi,
Today I met an attorney(not the one from Insurance..that is WIP still).
He feels that the main target is Rental agency(with deep pockets) and not the others who were included as defendants.
His argument is,
-- I am on H1
-- Not much of bank balance
-- No assets
-- Have a very old 98 model car(not even lexus , BMW etc..)
-- With a spouse and 2 kids to be taken care of
So I am poor chap and there is nothing they can extract much out of my pockets other than the 50K which my insurance will pay. He feels it is pretty straight forward case.The only twist to the story is, he is thinking that some of the defendants(rental agencies and others) may file lawsuits against me [I donno what they can extract out of me] as police report/Insurance agency concluded it as my fault (80% - 20%) after the accident..
In case If I wanted to have my attorney, I need to cough up $275/hr and 5K check upfront and he feels his fee may add upto 10K by the end of all this. So not sure whether just go with insurance agent's attorney for the time being and just wait how it goes, even if the case goes against me as I don't have much bank balance etc I am not sure what they can get out of me..
Any thoughts??
Just wait before hiring any attroney. Rental agency attroney will fight till end and your credit card company also covers the insurance.
I feel you will be OK.
Today I met an attorney(not the one from Insurance..that is WIP still).
He feels that the main target is Rental agency(with deep pockets) and not the others who were included as defendants.
His argument is,
-- I am on H1
-- Not much of bank balance
-- No assets
-- Have a very old 98 model car(not even lexus , BMW etc..)
-- With a spouse and 2 kids to be taken care of
So I am poor chap and there is nothing they can extract much out of my pockets other than the 50K which my insurance will pay. He feels it is pretty straight forward case.The only twist to the story is, he is thinking that some of the defendants(rental agencies and others) may file lawsuits against me [I donno what they can extract out of me] as police report/Insurance agency concluded it as my fault (80% - 20%) after the accident..
In case If I wanted to have my attorney, I need to cough up $275/hr and 5K check upfront and he feels his fee may add upto 10K by the end of all this. So not sure whether just go with insurance agent's attorney for the time being and just wait how it goes, even if the case goes against me as I don't have much bank balance etc I am not sure what they can get out of me..
Any thoughts??
Just wait before hiring any attroney. Rental agency attroney will fight till end and your credit card company also covers the insurance.
I feel you will be OK.
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ItIsNotFunny
03-13 12:57 PM
That is correct, 9 months and then I will return to my country for good.
I am waiting for the day when we get the GC , we will tear it into pieces and throw in front of consulate.
Cheers
Why are you consuming and wasting couple of visa numbers. Pull back your application and I will be couple of hours early getting it.
GC should be received by people who need it desparately not to people like you who just want to get it for personal satisfaction and has no value for it.
I am waiting for the day when we get the GC , we will tear it into pieces and throw in front of consulate.
Cheers
Why are you consuming and wasting couple of visa numbers. Pull back your application and I will be couple of hours early getting it.
GC should be received by people who need it desparately not to people like you who just want to get it for personal satisfaction and has no value for it.
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franklin
07-11 02:02 AM
I am not sure if you are being facetious but I think that is a great idea! :)
No, I'm not being facetious :)
There is always a chance that a well publicized (we are working on that part!) rally might attract opposition to the rally.
I wholeheartedly think that this gesture would be seen as fairly "american" and could defuse tension if it arises. Plus it would link back nicely to the flower campaign as well, and the eventual destination of the bouquets sent.
Political stance on wars aside, I don't think there are many people who don't support the lives on the line.
No, I'm not being facetious :)
There is always a chance that a well publicized (we are working on that part!) rally might attract opposition to the rally.
I wholeheartedly think that this gesture would be seen as fairly "american" and could defuse tension if it arises. Plus it would link back nicely to the flower campaign as well, and the eventual destination of the bouquets sent.
Political stance on wars aside, I don't think there are many people who don't support the lives on the line.
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mnkaushik
04-18 11:51 AM
Couple of my friends, who have 3 year degrees from India and also have 2 year Masters degree from India, have not been able to apply for EB2. Their lawyers suggested that 3 year degree are a hindernace to get EB2. They both have not tried applying for EB2 and both have active EB3 applications.
eager_immi
02-01 07:38 AM
Stop labor substitution
Cybersoft is the best example of exploitation of the system, so the labor substitution must be stopped immediately.
Cybersoft is the best example of exploitation of the system, so the labor substitution must be stopped immediately.
pavoniaMan
04-29 07:55 AM
Add $100 from me.
$100 from me too.
$100 from me too.
